Jim Turner E-Mail Shows He’s Unfit To Represent Constituents
Readers might be interested in a November 11 e-mail exchange between Councillor Jim Turner and a constituent regarding the controversial Genivar septic inspection contract.
The e-mail just below was sent by a constituent to all council members. It is the exact original e-mail except I (Craig) have replaced the constituent’s name with xxxxxxxxx:
To: John Close ; Paul McKenzie ; Jim Turner ; Karen Klages ; Marilyn Bowman ; Janice Jackson ; Matthew Standen ; Chris Thomas
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:14 AM
It was my understanding that Genivar was “fired” by the Town of SBP for lack of a better word “incompetence” during the Sauble Sewer Fiasco. Can you please enlighten me then why on earth you would award them a contract for septic inspection? This company has cost the taxpayers of this municipality dearly and should not be given another blank cheque.
I would like an answer to the above!
Councillor Turner’s reply to the constituent is just below. It is exactly as sent by Mr. Turner to the “constituent”, except I (Craig) have replaced the constituent’s name with xxxxxxxxx):
From: Jim Turner <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 1:50:55 PM
Subject: Re: Genivar
So nice to see you’ve put me back on your list of people to provide you with answers. I would have been unable to comment on a previous question you asked as to why a staff member was in attendance with me at court. Had I been able to comment I would probably have told you that how she spends her personal time is none of your damned business so thanks for not putting me in a position to appear rude.
I have never before found you to be lacking any words but please allow me to help!
“for lack of a better word “incompetence” ???”
A better word might have been “for completing a plan they were commissioned by previous council to prepare”
I know that phrase isn’t as catchy as incompetence but then truth seldom is!
Surely you meant Proposed Project!
“why on earth you would award them a contract for septic inspection?”
Maybe becausePryde Shropp McComb(division of Genivar) submitted the best bid based on a “blind” evaluation of the criteria in our RFP and council was looking after the best interests of the whole town.
Not wanting to lack a better word I chose carefully:Blind: noun – unable to see (the name of the bidder before choosing)
“should not be given another blank cheque”
You should choose your words more carefully since a contract to do work for a specific price is not a blank cheque and a statement like that illustrates a lack of knowledge on your part that would lead some to believe that attempting to “enlighten” you would be fruitless!
I hope this fulfills your request to “enlighten me then.” and please feel free to include me in your next round of questions as I am more than willing to help you come to an understanding of the process and procedures at council.
Please make sure your questions have nothing to do with my court case as I am still diligently following the advice of the excellent lawyer you and the rest of the taxpayers have provided to defend me and offering only – for want of a better word – No Comment.
That “No Comment” was the end of the Turner e-mail. From here on is my commentary (Craig), and is not part of the constituent and Turner e-mails.
Democracy is participation, by the people governed, in the policy process. The only reason why we don’t put the whole assembly of the people in an arena to make TSBP policy is because it would be too unwieldy. So we elect “representatives” to go to the assembly on our behalf, and to “represent” us.
We didn’t elect “representatives” to judge us, to harass us, to hurl snide, sarcastic, vitriolic remarks at us, to denigrate us, to libel us, to slander us, or to do anything else except “represent” us in accordance with their oath of office (“I will truly, faithfully and impartially exercise this office to the best of my knowledge and ability”).
So could someone please tell me (Craig) how Councillor Turner got elected?
And note Councillor Turner’s brag that he got staff to pay his legal bills – with our money! (Maybe it’s also a subtle Jim Turner threat, namely:“if you come after me I’ll get my Chief Financial Officer to hire expensive lawyers to fight you – and we’ll do it with your money” ?)
I smell an Arrogant ass amongst the ranks of our council. What’s with our council and their friggin self righteous attitudes. They forget they represent us…the taxpayers. They may want to start conducting themselves in a manner befitting their positions and stop this childish disgusting behaviour. I’ve seen members of council out in public making public spectacles of themselves with language and actions and it disturbs me that this is what represents us.
Many want to speak up against the madness. Almost all have been bullied and threatened and intimidated into silence, afraid that if they speak up they will be financially ruined by the vindictive actions of people the likes of Jim Turner, John Close and Rhonda Cook. I do not fault those who have been silenced. Often I too am afraid.
On the other hand I am very much inspired by your courageous stand (“I smell an Arrogant ass amongst the ranks of our council”).
There is indeed a rotten smell at town hall.
When they come after you Lynn, (and they will come after you), please don’t back down.
We need your voice.
Let them come, I don’t care. What are they going to do to me? talk back? I have raised five kids to be teenagers…I’m used to it. name call?…… ohhhhhh that’ll hurt, not like that’s not been done before. Make me out to be a rebel?,,,,,,,haha too late,,,, ask my parents, my teachers all thru school and anyone who knows me….I speak my mind, and tell it as I see it. YOu don’t have to like it and I respect that everyone else has their own opinions,,,just respect that I too have mine. .If they don’t want public scrutiny, they are in the wrong positions. We pay them to act on our behalf, not talk down to their constituents and sneak behind our backs. I like a challenge.
“bullied, threatened and intimidated into silence” seriously? call the cops, I say. YOu can’t treat people like that and expect to gain any respect. “financial ruin”? hahahaa nothing from nothing, is still nothing! I have absolutely nothing for them to gain.
“they will come after me” , I am not calling all of them out, but there is a select few that need to be a little more wary of their actions and comments to the people they represent.
ass: foolish or ridiculously pompous person
If his comments don’t reflect that definition I don’t know what does.
1) “none of your damned business”
2) “I know that phrase isn’t as catchy as incompetence but then truth seldom is”
3) “I have never before found you to be lacking any words ”
4) “a statement like that illustrates a lack of knowledge on your part that would lead some to believe that attempting to “enlighten” you would be fruitless!”
5) “I am still diligently following the advice of the excellent lawyer you and the rest of the taxpayers have provided to defend me ”
I do believe Turner’s comments in return to whoever he was speaking to are more than unnecessary. For a man in his position he could have chose to be a little more eloquent and respectful. In my opinion he is disrespecting her, making her out to be an idiot, and denigrating her and then follows it up with a pompous, arrogant statement such as rubbing in to her and the rest of the taxpayers for that matter, that we will be the ones paying for his legal fees!!! And this represents us! Shame on us!
We , the public, may not all know the exact procedures council follows to perform actions on our behalf but can someone please explain the process to me about why we would make a “blind” selection ? How is “blind” in the best interest of our town. Since when is it “financially responsible” to pull a name out of a hat just because it’s the lowest bid. It’s not lowest if they are screwing up and we have to pay to fix the errors! Council should have took a look at the name after they pulled it from their little “blind” hats and said “oh no, we are not going down that path again” and drew another name. Perhaps the second lowest would have been wiser. I’m of the belief that sometimes you have to spend money to make money. Going back to the same dog that bit you isn’t exactly a brilliant move.
Lynn: Good on you.
Just so you know. In January 2012 I and four others were sued for $700,000 over comments not unlike yours. The affair cost me nothing. But it cost two others ten thousand dollars even though the suit against them was abandoned. And the fourth has over $80,000 invested, and I expect he will get it all back, but the matter is still not settled and as such is causing a lot of grief.
“They” have recently asked a judge to order me to pay them over $5000 on a separate matter. The judge said no. The worst thing is that all their bullying and threatening and legal maneuvering is done not with their money, but rather with our tax money.
If you restrict your posts to opinions on what they do and what they say, and not on the person, and if you don’t back down (and I can see clearly that you won’t), they cannot harm you.
thanks Craig. That is my opinon. I cannot speak on anything prior to this latest post about how Jim Turner behaved. I have not read anything previous to that. I am just appauled at what I read and how he clearly spoke down to her. It’s totally uncalled for. He could have handled it in a far more polite manner and without denigrating her. He has to realize that he is in a position of respect and if he wants it, he should give it. Rather than be rude and pompous in return to XXXXXX , he should have politely informed her of decisions made and kept his personal comments out of it. I understand that at times our council probably deals with a lot of disrespect by frustrated residents in our area but if they can’t handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen. You chose to be in that position and then allowed us to vote you in based on how we “assumed” you would perform. To lash back and be rude about it is wrong. Educate us , Politely instead.
well said Lynn
I don’t think you realize how the much harassment they go through as a result of somebody like Craig with his half truths, and what is to date, 12 lawsuits which he has won none and counting. Legal bills, Craig has cost this town so much money for his foolishness. You have the protection of legal council when your on council whether you like it or not otherwise you would never find anybody to take the seats when craig is running around out there who will sue from everything from a headache. Corporations cover their employees legal costs and the town of southbruce peninsula is a corporation. Keep racking up the expenses Craig. I have personally read some of the abusive emails that have come in and maybe Gammie should give you a little background of the previous ones that my husband received from this constituent. Craig is the rudest man I know and I have personally seen him bully members of the audience at council meetings right down to calling them thieves. Get a grip Craig, maybe people should be getting their information from another source, it couldn’t be anymore incorrect than yours
Diana: Here is the true story of bullying of residents by town hall:
It is unfortunate that someone who seems so unable to handle the job of a TSBP Councillor as shown by his letter to a constituent , is still in it . Instead of spending our money on lawyers as he so gleefully admits , consider stepping down and allow someone who is able to handle the stresses and time required , to be elected in his place . It would be the honorable thing to do .
if we elected him, I don’t see why we can’t kick him out too.
sooner rather than later. why waste money at all. send him packing.
Good for you Lynn!
As I understand the current Council (except C. Jackson & C. Bowman) do not respond to resident concerns or complaints, much less frustrated residents. They have the staff respond, on a good day. As I recall, I did not vote for staff to be accountable to me. I do not think that most of the Councillors have a clue about what their job is and how to do it. If they are not going to represent us, why do we have them? Lets save some money and continue with the status quo by having the staff make the decisions. That is what appears to be happening now, as seen from my blue eyes.
well ‘blue eyes” that’s certainly enlightening isn’t it. So we can send all the complaints, questions, and concerns we want and they will not be answered by the council we pay to handle this,but rather by the other staff at town hall? or who do you mean by ” the staff” so where is the outline/job description of just what a councillor is to do? I’d like to see a copy of that. Because if they are not doing what is outlined in the job description, then yes, I agree , why do we pay them?
If you think this is bad you’ll enjoy circling the drain with Craig in there, you haven’t seen anything yet. Fasten your seatbelts it will be a pretty bumpy ride
Diana: Here is the true story of bullying of residents by town hall:
PRACTICES AND PROCEDURES
Municipal Organization and Administration
Role of council
224. It is the role of council,
(a) to represent the public and to consider the well-being and interests of the municipality;
(b) to develop and evaluate the policies and programs of the municipality;
(c) to determine which services the municipality provides;
(d) to ensure that administrative policies, practices and procedures and controllership policies, practices and procedures are in place to implement the decisions of council;
(d.1) to ensure the accountability and transparency of the operations of the municipality, including the activities of the senior management of the municipality;
(e) to maintain the financial integrity of the municipality; and
(f) to carry out the duties of council under this or any other Act. 2001, c. 25, s. 224; 2006, c. 32, Sched. A, s. 99.
Role of head of council
225. It is the role of the head of council,
(a) to act as chief executive officer of the municipality;
(b) to preside over council meetings so that its business can be carried out efficiently and effectively;
(c) to provide leadership to the council;
(c.1) without limiting clause (c), to provide information and recommendations to the council with respect to the role of council described in clauses 224 (d) and (d.1);
(d) to represent the municipality at official functions; and
(e) to carry out the duties of the head of council under this or any other Act. 2001, c. 25, s. 225; 2006, c. 32, Sched. A, s. 100.
You can only represent the people who want to be represented. Craig and his cronnies want it their way or your an idiot who has to put up with his insults and lies that never stop
Doesn’t warrant a reply.
taken right from the Municipal Act
Loved reading this. Love even more sharing the news that Jim Turner is in court tomorrow facing 9 charges against him, for smoking in his store. Apparently he thinks it is his right. Nice way to represent your town Jim.
First of all he was outside his store and ran it to grab the phone. The smoking police spent the day with spy equipment watching him. Is this a good way for your money to be spent. He does have the right to smoke outside, and this is a ridiculous waste of time. Can you imagine 9 charges for smoking on private property. Really You people are mean and you get really personal, surely you can direct your attention to something more important like finding all the holes in everything Gammie has to tell you
He was charged. Let’s see what the courts say.
and he doesn’t know enough to set the damn smoke down or put it out before he enters the store? private property or not…it’s a business! a public place of business!! We have smoking police? hahaha wonder what we pay those buggers. We people are mean and then u have the nerve to turn around and slam Gammie right after stating that. Seriously? Pot , kettle, black.
Hi Lynn, I’m not sure if I know you. Are you related to the Wiarton Wrights or the Oliphant Wright’s? I think I may have met you through work. I work for Paramed doing community care.
i’m sorry , what relevance does family history have to do with any of this? you have not met me thru paramed although I have worked there. but yes you do know me. not that you knowing me or of me, has any relevance either.
Sorry Lynne no there is no relevance in the family history, I just thought I knew you and wanted to say hello if you were the person I thought I knew. Nothing more nothing less. There’s so much more to a person than their politics. I have many friends that share differing ideas and that’s ok. Again, just wanted to say hello not argue.
I have watched him first hand smoke an entire cigarette inside his store. I know the tenants that live above his store that made the complaint to the tobacco enforcement officers, and know that they were dealing with him smoking inside on a regular basis, their entire apartment would smell like smoke. They have two young children that were breathing it in.
If you look up his court info from earlier this year, he claimed he doesn’t even run a store there, in order to get out of charges. Yet a few months later is quoted in the paper talking about how he runs a store in Wiarton. Tell me then, did he lie to the judge or to the public?
His apartment isn’t even above the area that Jim is in. He was complaining about him smoking outside his area and the smoke was coming up onto his balcony. Guess he can never live in an apartment building. This guy stands on the landing outside where Jim is and smokes pot so the entire grey bruce apolstery stinks like dope. I guess that’s ok is it. The employees including Mrs. Carter senior are very upset by this.
grow up, he has a license for medical marijuana… Jim should just speak up instead of having his daughter troll these websites on his behalf. its pathetic.
not his daughter, his wife.
I don’t feel Jim is the victim here. There is nothing in it for this family other than gaining access to tobacco-free air, which we are all entitled to. Especially with children who have breathing difficulties. Fact – Jim Turner has history in having workplace smoking charges. In reading past articles, he tends to place blame and have reasons for why things smell like smoke in his business. You can see by the way he responds to questions that he feels there is justification there. He’s manipulating the situation. If he has a lit cigarette in his business then he broke the law. Keep it simple.
My only comment is that their is two sides to every story and Craigs version of many events is misleading and completely full of holes, Do yourselves a favor and get information from another source. I have watched this man in council bully, call people liars and thieves and these were people sitting quietly in the audience. If Craig gets elected you’ll be circling the drain and the past will look pretty sweet. People can be really mean and nasty when it’s the written word and I have witnessed this for the past four years and then they demand respect. Really??????
Diana: Here is the true story of bullying of residents by town hall:
After watching the terror unfolding on Parliament Hill I have to say that all this back and forth he said she said seems pretty petty. We all have one thing in common and that is we love our community and most of its citizens, we appreciate the beauty of the peninsula and all that it offers so I think we have more in common than not. We just have to find a way to find common ground and work from there. In the grand scheme of things we are all pretty lucky to live where we do and to be able to raise our families in this natural paradise so if we all love our homes lets put things into proper prospective. Have a good day everybody and stay safe.
I heard you started an argument at Gateway Haven and were asked to leave. Who the hell does that. Only you Craig. Go ahead deny it
It is untrue. I did not start an argument. I was not asked to leave. What you “heard” is untrue. Check your source.
were you not asked to take it outside?
Diana: I would advise you to get your facts straight before you start making allegations.
It seems to me that someone is speaking through his daughter. Just goes to show what a coward that Mr.Turner really is.. He has ashed his cigarette on one of the renters, blows his smoke in their kids faces any chance he gets and when someone actually busts him breaking the law, he starts with the “poor ol’Jim Turner B.S.” As for the the renter smoking pot. Well maybe you should get all your facts straight, He has a license to use it for pain management an always uses it outside with the windows closed. As a matter of fact it was the OPP that said that he should be using it there instead of out in public. The fact is Mr. Turner broke the law and is throwing his typical hissy fit when he got told the rules also apply to him, despite what he might think.
Running into the store to grab a phone is still smoking in the store… because the smoke is in the store. Simple as that. He broke the law. Own up, apologize and make it right. The inability to do so only shows us the kind of person Jim Turner is. Dishonest and manipulating. Burn marks on the deck outside his business also shows his lack of respect for the tenants in the building and a lack of respect for the building’s owner. That could have been a fire. The way he is choosing to behave only highlights his guilt and indiscretion.